Another Squicky Thought Or Two About Batman

[caitri]

Cut for spoilers, potentially triggery discussion.


Okay let's talk about incarcerated women, shall we? We see two of them in the film: Talia's mom and Selena. Talia gets to see her Mom pulled away for a gang rape after which she dies (though, in retrospect...that doctor could engineer some stuff up for Bane but not for her, huh? WTF patriarchy?). Then we see Selena go to prison; they explicitly say it's all male because it's so easy for her to break out of women's correction centers. This is immediately followed with the dialogue of "it's okay, she knows how to take care of herself."

Um.

So...does anyone else read this as reinforcing the onus of "it's your own fault if you get raped"? Cos that's kind of what I see here.

~

Another thing that really struck me is how the international actors are coded within the broader context of the film. Tom Hardy (English), Liam Neeson (Irish), and Marion Cotillard (French) all get elided into the vaguely middle-easteriness of it all. (Question: Did anyone catch where the prison was supposed to be?) In contrast, Michael Caine is the good guy, but he's the Cockney who calls Bruce "Master" and only wants him to be personally happy.

'Kay.

And then there's the whole only-Bruce-can-be-trusted-with-the-nuke issue.

Let's contrast this with the Avengers briefly.

The Avengers are a nominally international body: Cap, Iron Man, and Hawkeye are Americans; Black Widow is formerly Russian; Bruce is essentially a wandering ex-pat; Thor is a legalized alien. *G* SHIELD itself is a bit fuzzy--there's that "Homeland" in the title but Fury's bosses are pretty clearly an international group itself. In the comics SHIELD is basically one or two steps above Interpol, which can similarly be assumed here given the ease with which Cap and Widow go into German civilian airspace. Of course, they too have to deal with a nuke at the end and only the wealthy billionaire industrialist can take care of it.

~

So. Thoughts? Comments? Flung produce?

Comments

[caitri.livejournal.com]

ETA: And let's talk about strong women vs. "strong women" with Natasha vs. Selena when you do see the movie!!!!!

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Ooooh eeenteresting. Now you know you're going to have to give me a teaser, right? :D

[caitri.livejournal.com]

Well here are some vague thoughts (followed by dammit, why do I not have a Natasha icon): So Selena is comparable to Natasha on the surface level, but a lot of things didn't click. I'm still trying to work out why in my head.

In terms of narrative/emotional arcs, Natasha redeems her comrade (Hawkeye), faces her fears (Hulk), and I think an argument can be made about how she owns up to her feelings for Clint. (Her admission that she's "been compromised." Yes, so subtexty, and YET.) Selena goes from thief to hero (?), and has UST and/or romance with Bruce--or at least that's what actions tell us, I didn't really feel it emotionally; not sure how much that was the actors' chemistry vs. Nolan being Nolan.

Violence against women. Twice in Avengers there is the point that Natasha makes herself look weak to exploit men; Selena does so as well. I wonder/hope maybe something ended up on the cutting room floor of Batman: in the prison break sequence there's a brief shot of Selena looking worried behind bars, and then we see her next on the streets checking out the devastation. I wasn't sure if we were supposed to see Selena's fear of prisoners as a woman (I can't remember if this is before or after te flashback to Talia's mom being pulled away for the gangbang) or just fear of the prisoners generally/anarchy/wev.

At any rate I think that Natasha's interrogation scene with the Russians had some call-backs to a Buffy moment where her rage is fueled not by being menaced but by the knowledge of what would have happened if it had been another woman who had been menaced sans Slayer strength. I didn't get that resonance with Selena, which is to say, she has two scenes with another woman character that she kind of protects (the other character is presumably at least a petty thief if not a hooker, but she doesn't even have a name) but she also has a kind of...not exactly contempt for her but there's no attachment/connection to her.

I'm kind of babbling at this point, it feels like. Maybe I'm too tired to articulate it all well, or maybe I need to see it again, except I really don't want to. :|

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

Verra interesting. So would you say there's legit feminism!fail going on?

Also, from what I'd read, I'd wondered how they were going to balance two potential romantic sotryline in the same film for Bruce (one with Selena, one with Talia). You think it was overly ambitious storytelling or just lack of chemistry or something else?

[caitri.livejournal.com]

I think what they were going for was a griefstricken!Bruce learns to feel! again! sort of thing, and it...so didn't work. This was part over-ambition--like, seriously, they have a lot going on in this three hour film and it sure as hell *feels* like a three hour film--and part lack of chemistry and part trying to force a feeling besides nihilism into it. "It's not all doom an' gloom, kids! Look, there's smooches!"

Yeaaaaaah, real emotion doesn't work that way, sorry, guys. Not only was there no build up or progression but there was no *time* for build up and progression.

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I feel like we might need a flowchart to keep track of all the levels of man!pain....